Discussion Blog - Born Gay Or Made Gay?

Although I know I was born gay, but during my chat with other gays, I find that majority of them are "made" gay. Almost all of them have experienced some level of physical intimacy with another man in their early teens. Even if they were put to this situation with or without their consent, they tell me they liked the feeling and decided to go for it. This is the answer I am getting most of the times which makes me wonder if the majority of the gay population is being made this way. As a sub-part to this question, can I also ask that if these guys had the chance to have the same experience with a woman first, would they have "remained" straight?

Also what is your stand on the possibility of existence of gay genes? Some scientists say that there are indeed gay genes that cause one's sexual attraction to the same sex. But others are strongly putting the argument that, if that is the case, then if one of the identical twin brothers is gay, the other should also be one. But in reality, only 52% it is coming that way proving that the idea of gay genes is a misconception (according to them).

I also heard that a man's sexual orientation is influenced by the conditions in his mother's womb when he was a foetus. Also, if the mother experiences uncomfortable situations or stress during pregnancy, it could lead to some imbalance to the development of foetus which may contribute as a factor for that child to become gay. What do you have to say about this?

I found out this now, that in Sambia tribe in New Guinea, young boys have sex with an unmarried male warrior from puberty to their late teens as part of their rite of passage to manhood. The boys are also given training in hunting and fishing. These boys become warriors and initiate the next generation of male youth. After that, they marry their women. Scientists say, this proves that there is an element of flexibility in sexual orientation. Otherwise these warriors couldn't have switched to homosexuality and then back to heterosexuality with such apparent ease. Do you accept this?

Do you agree to the idea that in a gay-supportive environment there is more chance of people inclining to explore same-sex desire?

It is also seen that most bisexual men agree that they are more sexually attracted towards men. Are you supporting this?

I would like to add one more topic to this discussion. What is the purpose of gays? Straight people have a purpose, which is to produce the new generation. Then what about gays? I heard one of my friends saying that it is nature's way to control population. Do you agree with this?

I request all of you to put a thought on these questions and express your views as comments. Please read all the comments before entering yours, so that the discussion can have a dynamic behaviour. Come back again and again since we can see new ideas emerging because everyone will be entering their thoughts as comments and then voice your perspective on that. Also I request everyone not to bring religious ideas into this discussion. I do not expect this discussion to come to a perfect conclusion. But I'm sure, as this discussion progresses it can help everyone to know about themselves and each other much more deeply.

So let this discussion begin!

Qualbi commented:
"WOW what an concidence!!It looks as if we have read the same article today, yeah I really have read about exactly the same things today...there is also said that from 2 brothers(or more)in 95% the younger and youngest is gay...well it s all really interesting but I do not think it will ever be answered. We all know now if one is gay it s not he would like to be eccentrical and catch attention that way, it is a fact we have to accept as well as someone that is lefthanded and it is just wrong to try to make them change. As not as I will become a black woman -no matter how much time I spend sunbathing, they wont become heterosexual - no matter how much time they spend with women! and as for me- I first of all see a person - a lovely or a bad one - just after a hetero or homo sexual, white or black, catholic or protestant etc etc...stay cool and lovely San hon ..luv you --hugs and kisses--"

Mal W commented:
"Being bisexual, Sam, I am turned on by both guys and chicks. In the context of living within my family and close friends being gay is completely and utterly unacceptable, I conform to this expectation and give out the strong message to others that I'm st8. Being 18 yo I have never had sex with a guy and have a current gf."

Jess commented:
"Well, I'll be back later to make some other statements but I'll start with the following.
I believe that we....YES WE are born this way, whether it gay, straight, or bi/trans. This is mother nature @ her finest my friend. Why we are the way we are, that's not for me to say.....life's way to hard already w/out starting the finger pointing game whether it genetics over learned behaviour.
I've lost a lot of friends and yes, even some family over my being gay which left me cautious to say the least, but I've gotten to a point in my life, that if my being gay can make or break the ties tha bind us.....well, they weren't really that string to begin with!"

Mark & Raul commented:
"Great discussion Sam.

First I do know that I was born gay, and Raul says the same. I know because even as a young 5 or 6 year old child, I had attractions to other boys. I was more curious to "know" them moreso than a girl. However, during my clubbing and dancing days, I learned that there are those guys out there that choose to be gay. Not because of any influence, but because they are curious and experiment and then enjoy the experience. There are many straight men who are curious, yet repress the urge to act on the curiosity. I believe some are born gay and others choose to be gay.

I have experienced women. I have had a handful of female lovers. Not because I was into them sexually, but because of religious and society pressure to be straight. Even as I hit my late teens, I was hoping what I felt inside was not true. I thought if I did this with a girl enough times, that maybe I could snap out of being gay. I remained in the closet until I was 23 and almost married one of those women. Luckily, that did not happen as it would have only ended with her being hurt. Now I only wish that I had been out much sooner. Because of hiding the truth, I have hurt others and myself.

Our purpose....Raul and I have discussed this before. I truly think we were put here by God. I think we are here to open the hearts and minds of others who fear or "hate" difference. I think there is alot of love within a gay person, love that we are meant to use in positive ways to bring peace and love to others...and I'm not talking anything sexual here.

I believe there could be a gay gene and that it could come from the Mother. I dont believe we will ever get to the point in my lifetime however where homosexuality is openly accepted as a norm. I only pray that I can make a difference one person at a time, so that my children and grandchildren will not have to endure the same harshness that I have had to in my day.

Thanks Sam for the discussion...

Hugs from Mark"

Darwin commented:
" 'Born Gay,' Is the idea that some believe is genetic or biologically predetermined(I believe yes) and unchangeable, the media presenting as scientific fact. The thing is the idea of one being 'born gay' is not new, and many times contradicted.

In 1899, German researcher, Magnus Hirschfeld, regarded homosexuality as 'congenital' -or- 'born that way'- and asked for legal equality based on this thinking.

Is sexual orientation unchangeable? Or is there external forces beyond one's control be a contributing factor?(I say Yes!) Is sthe 'Science' behind this idea 'born gay,' falling apart? I believe all contributes; what do you think of 'NATURE VS. NUTURE' do you believe both are influential common denominators?"

Jim & Kevin commented:
"I do believe we were born gay as well. And I also believe there are some people that choose to be gay. But there has to be some sort of attraction for the same sex. A straight person can't just wake up one morning and say, hey I think I'll be gay.
As far as genes go, I don't know for sure. In my family, I have a gay cousin, and 2 bisexual cousins, and 1 cousin that enjoys doing drag. All on my mother's side of the family. So wether that is gene related I couldn't tell you for sure. As for me, I'd like to think that I was born gay. But how do I know that for sure. My father sexually & physically abused for 9yrs. Starting at 5yrs old and ending at age 14, when I finally threatened I would tell. I also was molested by one of my gay cousing, and molested when I was boy scouts. Yes I'm majorly attracted to men in every possible way. And I've never had sex with a woman. I have dated 2 women in high school. One my father made me break it off, he says it was cuz of grades, I think he felt threatened. The other girl broke up with me cuz I wouldn't have sex with her. I have made out with both girls, but that is as far as it went. To go further, just seemed unnatural, when all I wanted to do was be with a man. Now considering my sexual abuse past, was it because of that, or is because I was born gay and really wanted men on my own will. I will never know, cuz I will never be with a woman, they do nothing for me. The male form, does it all!!!
Hmmmm, putting a straight guy in a gay-supportive environment.....question is for how long? You could say the same for putting gay or lesbian in a straight environment. It's like putting anybody in a drug environment......I've learned that we become the product of our environment in that aspect.....as I was in N.A. back when I was 17 or 18yrs old.
I don't believe that straight people where put on this earth only for the purpose of breeding, I think it goes much further than that, and that's getting into religion....and I'm not about to go there.
I really don't know what else to say, but other than that this was a really good post. It will be interesting to see what others have to say. This is one post I will be coming back to. Luv & Hugz, Jimmy"

Mike commented:
"I really don't think you can be made gay. Are straight kids who have sex when then are teens 'made straight.' "

"B" commented:
"I have heard all of the theories of sexuality that you have put up for discussion, even the one about older brothers that I heard about a few weeks ago. Most of it is quite interesting to me as I really dont know that there is a single place I can put my beliefs. I do know that I really knew I prefered guys over girls at a very early age. I guess before that I really had crushes on other guys that I knew but it didnt hit me until I had turned 12. When all my friends were talking about girls I seemed to be stuck on guys. I remember I spent a good amount of time dealing with this, and I guess I just decided to keep it to myself and move on. I conformed to a str8 behaviour and did the whole dating thing and eventually I did get married and raise a family. However, in the end there has to be a reckoning I guess. LOL. I look back on my life now with few regrets, but I do regret not following my natural instincts more back then. It was at the time difficult and not accepted at all but I think I should have liked have more opportunities. Like many other married gays I did have few encounters that really did confirm for me that I was living a false life. In the end, I divorced, and moved on, came out to my immediate family and am here today to say not a bit of it has been easy.

I often wonder how my life would have been had I made a different choice back then. I remember this one guy I knew, who was from England. When we were 16, John had decided that he was leaving home and was never going to come back. I remember talking to him and saying to him that he didnt have to do this. He gently explained to me that I didnt understand. I looked him in the eye, and knew exactly what he was on about. I gave him a hug and said goodbye and I knew then that he knew I shared his secret. I never did see or hear from him again, but whenever I think about him I respect how brave he was. I remember standing in front of the restaurant in the small town we grew up in and watching him walk away. I remember him, his clothes, his back pack, his trainers, even how he smelled. Odd isnt it the things we store away.

Anyway, I guess i believe that you are what you are. It doesnt matter how it is or how it happened does it really? I think what is important is that we all accept each other, Str8, Bi, Gay, whatever, and remember we all breathe the same air. Sorry I wandered so far off your discussion line, but each experience is unique to its beholder. Without going into my past, how could I say I was born this way.
hugs for everyone here, all the comments have been thoughtful and well put. /bill"

Lost Love commented:
"i would love to comment indepth on this later (seeing i am sitting in a hotel room with a pounding headache).

First of all i beleive each and everyone of us has a purpose and it has nothing to do with our sexuality. our sexuality in a way is a release, a pleasure... and yes ultimately designed for reproduction.

but i look at males and females. i think being gay or straight is easier than being bi. i mean seriously, you know exactly what orientation your after. but if your bi some of the others look at you and go... "yeah right"

but seriously... what does someones sexual preference matter other than a possible partner? we are here for a reason and love is love. i think scientist should be using their time to find cures for diseases than fuel the on going "what is wrong with these people that like their own kind" and what is their motive for looking? to single people out before they can discover on their own? to "cure" those that are "that way"?

ook i a, rambliong. but in closing... i think being gay is a persons own journey, discovering themselves, discovering what makes them tick, finding what they like. who am i to hinder it? besides i am enjoying my journey :P"

Sam commented:
"I second what lost love has to say: people just don't accept bisexuals to be the real thing. It's as if we're playing with our sexuality by choosing either the guys or the girls - so nobody really takes you seriously.

For me (since I'm bi) - I think I was made gay, coz' well - if I didn't check out gay porno when I was younger, I probably wouldn't have been attracted to the guys there would I? I think that, that was what probably roused my attention to my interest in guys... or I'd probably be straight. Or even, suppressing who I really am.

I don't know much about the studies - but I did remember reading that younger brothers had a higher chance of becoming a homosexual. Well, guess what - I'm the oldest in my family, so I have no idea how that falls into place. But the fact that you said that bis were more interested in men? Yeap, I guess that's true (well, at least what I think) coz' I'm WAAAAYYYY more interested in guys than I am in girls. But that doesn't mean I don't fall for girls occasionally... =P

But it's an interesting viewpoint from Mike, and I agree with him. It's those kids who have sex in their teens who are made straight. Not us."

Stevanilla commented:
"I don't believe that you can be 'made gay' no more than I think you can be 'cured' by it. That whole concept is a line of shit. I have never WANTED to be gay I just am. In fact my I had wished that I wasn't for a major portion of my life. I have been tourmented over something that is an innate part of me that has caused me a lot of trouble. It has distanced me from my family, it has caused tourment through school and amongst coworkers and through being gay I have heard some words thatI never wanted to learn. Words like faggot, cupcake, queer, fuck-up pervert, disgusting..I have been told I was going to hell more times than most people have blown their nose...Just a whole shit load of stuff. Being str8 would of been much easier I think, but the fact of the matter at no point and time have I ever questioned it. Sure I have had to deny it at times to save my ass. I can never talk about my love life openly around family and friends. So being gay hasn't done too many favors for the Nilla. So if you think you can be made gay or CHOOSE to be gay then someone needs to let me in on the fu king secret cause I would of loved to have learned a long time ago."

bambam commented:
"for me it comes down to me feeling comfortable in someones company.instinctivly i am attracted to men sexually but when it comes to relationships i find women more attractive,i dont know if this makes sense or not.im beyond trying to explain who i am anyway,hehe.im just me.
i have had relationships with both sexes & am now married with 3 children.for me it is about love & commitment.sex at the end of the day is just that!sex.
we should all just be happy being who we are & if no one is getting hurt then there shouldnt be a problem.
great blog sam,very informative!"

BluDolphin commented:
"I waited a few says to see what people here thought before I put in my two cents. As you know, I have a lot of theories and beleifs concerning the "born or bred" question.

I believe the first thing you have to do is define what makes a person gay. Is it simply the fact they participate in homosexual acts or is it a deeper psycho-emotional trait that may or may not be expressed through physical attraction and coupled with those acts?

I would say it's a psycho-emotional trait.

I believe that this trait, like blue eyes, left-handedness, skin color, a pre-disposition towards learning a specific field like music or mathematics is genetic. It is an inherint and hereditary traight passed through or DNA. Having the strength to accept this (in the face of social and, sometimes, moral condemnation) comes from our upbringing. It's when we find strength enough because we are told that we can do or be anything that allows us to overcome the pressures of society.

As for the other definition of 'gay' - participating in homosexual acts - well, the simple fact is that pleasure is pleasure. Men have many nerve endings and pleasure receptors on their bodies, includong obvious places and some less so obvious. Be it through homosexual or heterosexual acts that stimulate this, what feels good, simply feels good.

Next, you have to consider the portion of the community that feel they are gay because of abuse or molestation. I've never been molested or abused so I cannot begin to know what that does to the psychology of a person. However, I do know that some victims of traumatic experiences develop empathy for their victimisers. In some cases this is called Stokholm Syndrome (look up Patty Hearst). Maybe being a victim of homosexual abuse causes some sort of sexual empathy. Or, maybe the acts performed awakened a latent desire that might otherwise have never been noticed or considered.

Many people do not "come out" until later in life. Some knew at an early age they were gay and covered it up; others said they always knew something was different or missing, but not sure what it was until some light went on or some experience occured that showed them what it was.

Being gay isn't bad or good, but like the variety of gay people in the world, there are a variety of reasons why we might be gay or choose to honor that we are gay.

PS - All uses of the word gay should be understood to include all instances of psycho-emotional sexuality other than straight, including bisexual and trans-gendered."

AJ commented:
"I was "Born Gay" and proud of who I am! I am open about my lifestyle to all that know me. Many straight people feel comfortable about asking me, "When did you first know you were Gay?" No matter how I shared my experience they could never truly understand.

So, I changed my approach and begin to ask them, "What proof can you give me that says you are straight." In shock they respond..."well, I just know it, I feel attracted to girls, I could never do it with a guy...." Well then, you have the answer to how I feel, just reversed. Most reply "Oh, I get it". I encourage you to try this simple approach and see the results.

The question I want to ask straight people is “why straight people are so interested in the issue of ‘Born Gay’

Will there ever come a time when we will just except sexuality and lifestyle as a normal part of being human, regardless of ones personal expression. Are we not all Humans with the same feelings to be loved, respected and shown dignity?

It is only when we liberate are thinking of people beyond the sexual or lifestyle that we can discover the real heart and soul of a person."

David commented:
"As I told you Sam, I thought this would be a great way to get some answers for you. I will maintain that we are gay because we are gay, not unlike the sky is there because the sky is there. I think it is a born thing, I really dont think you can be made one way or the other. I do believe there are those out there that are truly bi-sexual. It is not a load of crap like so many think. I kind of think Kinsey had a good thing going, I think there are varing degrees of "gayness", "straightness", "biness", and if those are not really words, I just made them words. I think that most of us are to some degree bi-sexual. I have never been with a woman, although, I too have made out with girls and find it to be somewhat stimulating. It is nothing compared to the attraction I have to men. I too was molsested as a child and it happened from the time I was 8 to 13. It was with a step-brother and I think it opened my eyes to what interested me. I dont think what he did had anything to do with me actually being gay. I also tried to adhere to the "straight" life and before I got married, I thought first and chose not to enter into a union that I knew was doomed from the start, I did not want to commit to something and then not be able to follow through with that commitment. I talked to my mom and chose to break of a long term relationship with a girl. It was the smartest thing I did at that time in my life. I too have strayed from the original topic a little I guess, Sam what I want to convey is that we are born gay, are gay because that is what we are, and will be because that is who we are. I hope this open discussion has answered some of your questions. Thanks for starting it."

Lightning commented:
"Sorry im late :)
Well, i dunno much about stadistics and stuff, I just know what i've seen and what i've been thinkin, and that's that people born gay, nobody is made.
There r too many opinions and testimonials here about this, and i think everybody is right in one thing...
Pleasure is pleasure, and u can't chose what makes u feel good, u just feel good and that's it. Its a genetic thing I guess, not psychological or emotional or an imitation thing.
Its not like eating chocolate or something. Maybe u liked chocolate but ur mother didnt, so she never gave u chocolate, or she influenced u to hate chocolate, or u eated so much and then u got ill and u hated chocolate since then. Thats not how sexuality works, lol.
Someone could say that it was made gay cuz of the gay-supportive enviroment, or because they were molested, but i dont think that has anything to do.
In any case, people could "turn out" to be gay, not made.
Maybe a supportive enviroment helped to live a gay life openly, or maybe being molested helped to realice what was the path to follow in life.
But because of all the religious ideas, social issues, family pressure or just fear, gay people "chose" not to live a gay life, not being gay.
Only there u can use the concept of "choice".
Straigth ppl dont chose to be gay, in any case if they feel atracted to same sex ppl and label themselves as curious, maybe to keep the straigth image. And if they enjoyed the experience, then they were gay from the start. If they feel comfortable being with opposite AND same sex ppl, then they were bisexual in the first place.
Dunno just a thought
Great blog Sam :)"

Becky commented:
"*runs in* Sorry my prince, I'm late, I know. But I am here now and damn do you ever have a discussion going on. Ok first, as far as being exposed to something at a young age, this hits a lil close to home for me, let's just say something happened to my daughter. I'm sensitive so bare with me. I think when you're exposed to it at a young age, you obviously don't know what it is going on whether it's with the same sex or not. It is confusing for children because they do get some pleasure out of it. I don't think that if a child has experienced something with someone of the same sex it programs them for being gay. Sorry, have to move on, this bothers me. As far as it being in genes, well damn I have no idea. But I think a person is born gay, it's not even a choice, it's just the way a person is, so maybe it's possible it's in the genes or maybe not, lol, glad I could add something here!!
The thing about the fetus being exposed to something in the womb that makes a person turn out to be gay, I'm sorry but I think that is ridiculous.
Wow, that fact about New Guinea, I had no idea. Well all I can say, is I don't judge, if it works for them then more power to them. What I don't agree with is when it's forced onto a person. That is just not right, now I'm not saying it is forced on them, it is the way things are over there.
Yes, I'd have to say with a gay-supportive enviroment that more people would choose to explore same sex relations. It wouldn't be so intimidating and there aren't going to be those close-minded individuals that will judge a person. But that is not the world we live in.
I don't agree with the bi-sexual men theory, it is a matter of choice and everyone is different.
The purpose of gays...hhmmmm...to be just who they are. Population control, LMAO!! whatever, lol!
Hey Sam, sorry I didn't read anyone else's comments, I've had a hell of a day, sick friend in the hospital and a few other things. I will be back when I'm more rested though. Thanks and sorry again for being late. Big Hugs"

William commented:
"i don't think we are either born gay or made gay...we are basically attracted to who we are attracted to.I myself am straight ,married and a father of four,so obviously I do not find men attractive?,wrong.I find both women and men attractive,but I am attracted to women.It also become an issue of compatability,you do not have to be compatable with one of the opposite sex,nor with the same sex.It's all on you and how you feel.To be honest,that is all ther is to it for me"

Caghs commented:
"I reserve my opinion on this for two reasons:

1) Every gay friend I have IRL has admitted to a history of abuse. This leads me to speculate that abuse does things to the human mind that wouldn't otherwise be true.

2) As a teenager, I was convinced I was gay. I felt more attracted to females than to males. However, as I got older and started to come to terms with the sexual abuse I endured as a child, I came to realise that the attraction to females stemmed from a mistrust of males. I no longer find myself attracted to other females ...

Both of these would suggest that people are led through circumstances to believe they are gay ... but I don't pretend to have all the answers. There's always another side to the story.

For what it's worth, I believe in the Bible as the Word of God, and it clearly states that man is not to lie with man, and woman is not to lie with woman ... it goes on to say that women shouldn't mate with animals, and that fathers should not sleep with their daughters.

Food for thought.

As a footnote, I would just like to clarify something. I am not condemning anyone, gay, straight or bi. I am not in a position to know enough to make an informed judgement, so I just state my personal views while accepting the validity of the views of others.

Just thought I'd better clear that up :)"

William commented:
"With out sounding bad,and no offense is meant,but are you saying you obey all of Gods commandments and all of the levitican laws?"

Jeremy C commented:
"This is what my friend Bre said to some idiot who told her gay people choose to be gay "You think gay people choose to be gay? I am a BLACK WOMAN. Do you honestly believe I woke up one day and said 'My life just isn't hard enough. I think I'll try being gay?' HELL NO!' "

PROGOTTI commented:
"i don't think there ever was a time i wasn't gay. i went through a period of blending in and passing which i got through and ended because the lie of being str8t was worse than the cost it was having on my own spirit and self image. at 14 the Stone Wall riots took place. i was immediately and forever moved into the ranks of those who think we should have an eqaul place on the palying field"

William commented:
"I don't think you should have equal rights as a gay man,I think you should have equal rights as a human being.Why should who one sleeps with determine if they should be considered less of a citizen than me?.We are all entitled to be treated the same,whether black/white,man/woman/,gay/straight."

Caghs commented:
"Will - no, I openly admit I don't. That's why I don't see myself as in a position to judge anyone else.

I apologise if what I said came across wrong. I'm not judging anyone, just sharing my personal experience and belief. I am not imposing that belief on anyone else.

This is a complex issue. It's not something that can be condemned or condoned by anyone, because we just don't know all the ins and outs of it. God calls us to be compassionate, not to judge ... that's the only bit I can do on my own.

Geez, I'm nowhere near perfect ;) Anyone that says that are is either lying or delusional"

monkie commented:
"When someone asks me my sexual orientation, my answer is always something like "closer to the hetero end of the sexuality spectrum"... and that's how I see it. I think all people have some basic bisexuality and it's just a matter of degree. I also think that it is a (regrettable) part of human nature to want to classify _everything_ - including ourselves, and to mistrust anything which defies classification. So the man says "I'm straight" and that 12% of his brain which is attracted to other men gets shoved back someplace where he doesn't have to recognize it. And we look at the bisexual man and try to tell him he's gay ("hey man, you have to stop liking women now... you MUST be classified...").

Born gay or made gay? hmmm...
I think for those that are born at the homosexual end of the spectrum, the thought of being "made" gay can be pretty offensive. No, you didn't chose to be where you are... but for those born closer to the middle of the spectrum, maybe all it takes is a bit of a shove one way or the other to see which end they'll be classified at? (oh shit... sorry Sam, I feel myself going into babble mode again here) At any rate, how much of it is physical and how much is emotional? When I see a drop-dead gorgeous someone, a someone that makes my heart flutter and makes me go weak in the knees... that someone is invariably male. I have a strong physical attraction towards men. But could I fall in love with a woman? Absolutely. People are people, love is love. Could I have a relationship with this hypothetical woman? Yes. Sex? Yes... but I might find myself closing my eyes and pretending she was a man LOL

I think that in a more supportive environment, we might all find ourselves being who we really are... would that mean more people identifying as gay? Maybe, or it could mean less people feeling the need to identify at all"

kelly h commented:
"Well i also believe people are born gay.
This is a great topic.People have different views.
I have gay cousins on my fathers side.None on my mothers side that i know of.
I also think people get curious about the same sex.And may feel more comfortable with the same sex.People may not relize they are gay till later on.
We may never know the anwsers to all these ?s.But i will keep checking back to find out what other people think on this subject."

Lightning commented:
"Wow, I totally agree with u monkie.
Thats mostly what I was trying to say about all this, degrees on the sexuality spectrum, totally great concept.
Someone can call it sexual atraction, love, admiration or just plain and simple envy. We r always looking for qualities in ourselves or in the neighbor, to brag about or to feel good about what we have, to recognize what the rest of the ppl have in them or to envy it.
Anyway, that admiration or "to like" something about the other person could be measured with "degrees", it could ezly go from just liking or admiring, to like or feel atracted to. This doesnt mean it could be changed, the degree of "likeness" towards ppl of the opposite or the same sex is setted since the day we r conceived I guess, and the whole idea is to identify it and to live accordingly to that, to fullfill the "sexual fullness" we r supposed to have in life.
Human beings always try catalogue everything, but why? to understand things, to control, and whats beyond control and understanding is rejected.
Some of my friends and I were talking about all this, and one of them said that she was ok with the way ppl live their lifes, even if she couldnt understand it.
So, she could be labeled as open minded, but the rest of the people whos not that open, is the ppl whos always attacking and stuff.
And thats why I say is all about genetics, cuz, I cant understand how a person could write using the left hand, cuz Im right handed and i havent experienced writing with my left hand, and even if I try to do it I still feel comfortable writing with my right hand. We can learn to write with both hands BUT, that means that u were able to do it that way since the begining, u just needed to try it.
As freely and as normal as handwriting is, ppl should be able to accept differences about sexual preferences.
Falling in love with someone of the same sex... ok, I really dont want to get religious here but, aren't we suppose to love each other, lol. No, seriously now, as its been said there r degrees too.
Dunno, just a thought
have a great day everybody"

David O commented:
"Wow, this is really great, I love getting the different perspectives of all of these people from all over the world. There seems to be a common theme, in that we are born the way we are. I have really liked the perspectives that each of you has shared, it reaffirms what I have always felt. That is I am who I am supposed to be and nothing more or less. I hope this continues for a while and I am sure there will be more great reading ahead."

Luciddreamer commented:
"Long time listener (through David O), First time poster. Wow, this is a great post and I like all of the responses. To start this post of mine off, I must say that I belive that we are born and choose to be what we are. I have come into believing that I was born gay, and have made a choice to live that lifestyle. My background (sexually) is a blank page, yes I would be one of those rare things called a gay virgin. and I do mean virgin, most people think just not with men, and I mean not with anyone. I have laid down with women and have done some stuff with them, but, it never did anything for me. I have never was abused by men, or women for that matter, and so looking back on my life I have realized that I have always had an attraction to men, but was just so caught up into other things that I never realized anything about my sexuallity until I was far far away from home and on my own.
I belive that if anything would of happened to me with a women, sex, marriage, kids....etc nature would have worked it course and eventually I would have came out and would have to go through the heartache and struggle as many of other gay men have done, and part of me is glad that I didn't have to go through that.
Now when it come up to the topic of gay genes, I really can't say, the scientific part of me says that it only make sense that something chemically is different about us to make us that way. The logically part of me doesn't care one way or the other, becuase if it does come out that it is something that is chemical some wild, possibly religious extremist is gonna get some wild hair up his butt, and think that through science and medicine we can be cured, or at least controlled. And I am not about to be controlled.
Was there something wrong in my mother's womb? hell, I don't know, all I know from my mother is that she liked her pregnacy with me the most becuase her cravings were for hot fudge sundaes.
Now I have never heard about this tribe in New Guinea, But I do agree that sexuality can be flexiable, I choose to label myself as gay, and I prefer men, but, I cannot say that if I had the opportunity to have sex with a woman that I found sexually arousing, that i wouldn't go for it. But hey, that is just me.
Gay supportive Enviroment. Man, do I need to find one of those. sorry about that. I'm not really sure that if someone is in a gay supportive enviroment that they would be so inclined to be with someone of the same sex. I really think it all falls back onto the person you are dealing with, and their personal preference. I just think that if there were more support all around we as a society wouldn't have the problems we have, and I truly feel that if we didn't have the labels, we could just live are lives as we should. spoken by the young man who labels himself as gay to make sure ugly women quit groping me. :)
Bi-men, I love bi-men, I have always thought of this qoute from a show on MTV. "When a woman says she is Bi, she really likes men. When a man says that he is Bi, he really likes men." I for a time (3 years) allowed myself to be labeled as bi, i think it was to give myself an out, so that i could try and justify my actions of going to male strip clubs and going to gay clubs. I again don't know about anyone else, just what has happened to me.
My purpose? Good question, I believe that my purpose is to live. Live my life in a way that when I meet my maker I am proud and so is she. I do want to raise a child, hopefully with my own genes involved, becuase I do know that I will make one heck of a parent. That child will be armed with things such as; compassion towards his/her fellow man/woman, tolerance towards those who will try to oppose him/her, and love, love that is so strong that it knows no bounds. No one will be able to stop the child from picking someone and loving them to their whole heart no matter what anyone says. I know this becuase I have these armaments and will use them at my freewill.
Much Love all, Scott"

Scotti E commented:
"I know I was born gay. From a very young age I was attracted to guys. However I didnt act on those feelings until my early twenties--after I had several girlfriends and had been engaged to marry. I realized that fantasizing about guys while having sex with my girlfriend just wasnt normal. Once I accepted who I was a lot of the negativity and frustration I felt about myself lifted.
I was never sexually abused or had sex with a male early on, and I am the oldest of four so I dont support any of those theories of abuse or sibling order at all.
As far as "The Word of God"--have you read it? It has some pretty strange ideas in it that we reject as a society today. Slavery, woman as property, war- all seem to get the stamp of approval. Why is it that modern christians use ancient hebrew text to condemn others? (I am speaking of many of the rabid anti-gay christians not caghs)
I am also a very spiritual person. I attend Bible studies and have had a life altering experience that saved me from being killed by a crazy man's bullet. So I believe I have a purpose and God can use anyone--not just the hetero Bible humpers. In general though, population control as a purpose sounds good to me, lol.
Anyhoo--I think we are born this way and the only way nuture may play a part is in whether or not we are raised to accept ourselves or not."

Caghs commented:
"Scotti E - I have to say I agree with you. Too many people label themselves Christians, and use this to condemn others.

If you get to the root of it all, the basic message of the Bible is that we have all sinned, and we all need God's grace ... which means that NONE of us meet the standard ... which means that NONE of us should be judging anyone else on ANY basis.

So someone who calls themselves a Christian should be MORE aware how ludicrous it is to judge, and LESS willing to judge.

Opinions, however ... now that's a different matter.

Just my two bobs worth ;)

I'd just like to throw another thought in for discussion - not religious this time.

I understand that gay men and gay women (or bi, for that matter) feel the need to be true to themselves, and follow their hearts to the gender they are attracted to.

What I don't understand is why some gay men and some gay women feel the need to flaunt their sexuality. (This goes for hetero people too, BTW).

Okay, so my childhood friend [let's call him Gary] disclosed to me at 17 that he was gay. No problem. He is a guy that I have cherished as a friend for the best part of my life. No drama.

Why, then, did he feel the need to ring me at night and tell me all the intimate details of his sexual encounters with men? Why does he feel the need to flaunt his sexuality, in what could only be termed as sluttiness? (A different guy, sometimes a few, each night, then boasting about it).

Should I, then, announce to the world that my preference is the opposite sex, and go into intimate details about my experiences with men?

I'd be interested to get your thoughts on this.

And no, I don't sleep with a lot of different men. I am speaking hypothetically."

Jim & Kevin commented:
"Caghs, Your friend "Gary" must really feel open and close to you to share those intimate details in his life. You both must have a very tight bond, and that is wonderful. He may not have others to confide in as such. But maybe since you two are very close, he would more than likely understand if you told him not disclose such intimate details of his night outings with men. And just leave out the very details of it and keep it simple. I dont believe that wouldn't offend him at all.

It's been so great to see all the different views on this discussion....Sam you out did yourself this time...lol

I think also it boils down to how well of a connection you have with someone as well. I have a friend that I we have connected with on so many levels and from different things that has happened in our past have brought us really close. And although I love and adore Kevin with all my heart. I do have an attraction to this person. But I know my limits. I guess what I'm trying to say is gay/straight, when the attraction levels are so high, the more you get to know each other, the endorphines just take over. I'm not sure if I'm wording this right or not. Maybe someone can help me out on this.
I do think its wrong that if you have feelings for the same sex and marry a straight person, just for the sake of family and other friends belief is wrong. Because you are hurting not only yourself from not living the life you want to live....but for the person you married. Just imagine you married into a gay/lesbian relationship and totally fell in love with this person and then come to find out a few years later, they actually want to be with a straight person. I dont know about you, but that would totally crush me, and really lower my self esteem. I dont understand that, why people would do that to someone else, just because of being afraid what family would think. Your not living your life for them or others. It's about you, and being happy within yourself. Anyway that's one thing I wont understand. To much hurt involved in that."

Caghs commented:
"Jim - That's good in theory, but when I asked 'Gary' not to disclose the intimate details, he got angry with me and accused me of judging him and being homophobic, and hasn't spoken to me since.

That was 1999.

I re-read what i just wrote, and thought I'd better expand on that a bit.

What I actually said to him was that I didn't mind the phone calls, but could he please not tell me such detail. I didn't say his lifestyle was wrong (except for the drug-taking and alcohol abuse - I told him that was stupid) ..."

Kev commented:
"Well finally back from my weekend and able to post. So Born or made? Well I was born. I know that. From a very early age. I would say 8 as best I can remember. I had relations with a neighbor girl. And it was more than just 'playing Doctor'. I don't know how she knew what to do, but she did. Anyways. A little later about 10 or 11 Me and a neighbor boy would do stuff. So my first experience was before I really contemplated or even thought abut being gay or straight. So If sleeping with a girl didn't make me straight. I don't think I was made straight. And as a side note. I was always turned on by other guys. Not that I always admitted it. And I too tried to 'change' my preference by sleeping with women. Luckily I accepted myself before I ended up married or something."

UNDER-REPAIR commented:
"No One Was Born Gay...That is all"

femme fatale commented:
"I believe everyone is born bi it all depends in wich environment we grew up, leave out religion."

Blazen commented:
"Great blog...great debate...just came here tonite for the first time...but I'll be back just to keep up with what's goin on here..."

DT commented:
"I just followed my blazen here...( him there just above me ) but i dont think being abused makes u gay..the vast majority of abusers r men...so if abusing a young boy makes him gay what about abuse of a young girl...does that keep her str8... i dont think so...u really do have a great site here...and ive sat for a long time reading all these comments...and my belief is yes u r born gay..im tired of people asking me when i decided 2 be gay...all i ask them is when they decided 2 become str8...and i always get the same answer...they were born str8...i say to them...so what makes being born gay any diffrent...they never reply"

Rebecca commented:
"Ok..What about all of us straight people. Were we born straight or did we choose to be straight? I want to say we are born what we are...but I realize some have the misconception that if a child was abused by someone of the same sex that makes them gay. I was molested of sorts when I was 5. By an older teenage cousin(male). I remember him touching me and how it felt. However, I don't feel that being molested by a male is why I choose to be with men. BUT I will say that being introduced to a sexual charge at such a young age, created a desire for sex. It's all I thought about from age 5 to now. I believe we are attracted to who we are, because that is what feels comfortable or right to us. Being a victim of abuse, I feel just makes us more sexual. I, like William, can appreciate beauty in the same sex, even though I'm not sexually attracted to them. Homosexuality even occurred in the Bible. I do not agree with the 'idea' of homosexuality' but at the same time think myself to have an open mind, and treat all people the same. If we carry a hatred for gays, minorities or whatever the issue is, we just pass that on down to our children. There will never be peace or harmony in this world if we just keep passing down the hatred and the ugliness? Sorry for babbling...Rebecca

Consequently, I forgot to mention, that my first husband left me for another man...If society would accept us all for who and what we are...perhaps we wouldn't go messing up others lives, trying to be something we aren't? I can't complaign, however. He was a very kind man, with a big heart, never knew a stranger and we had a son together."

Bye Fake People commented:
"I HATE HATE HATE (yes with that strong of a word I do not allow my family to use in my home)LABELS! We're people damn it, not gay, not bi, not strait, we're just people, who cares whom we love? Too much anger, too much angst, this world should care about bigger issues than who has sex with whom. I say you are who you are...nothing can change that and the more real and honest you can be the happier, sooner you will be."

Arthur L commented:
"My own experience is that I discovered I was more interested in boys around age 5. The twin studies discussed earlier suggest that Hormones and maybe nurture do have an influience. I suspect that nurture mostly causes a person to suppress a gay orientation rather than to cause it.

Another idea that could explain diferences in twins is that Hormones and nutrition can effect how genetic make up is expressed. Maybe because one of getting better blood exchange with the placenta. One twin has a surge of hormones or gets more than the other sometimes. This becomes a very technical discussion."

A Truth About Fairy Tales

Yesterday was a day that made me disappointed in myself. But it actually surprises me that I let myself feel down like that, because I got what I wanted which I was truly hoping to get and I didn't get the one which I was really doubtful. I was sure that the outcome of the latter one would not be a pleasant one unless some miracle happens and that didn't anyway occur. This made me think about my negative qualities and I ended up feeling depressed.

When negative thoughts hunt me down, it’s my second nature to escape from the reality and fly into the fantasy world, where there is only happiness and your every dream is fulfilled. How I wish our real life was like that!

There is nothing that rejuvenates my senses like when I am watching a romantic movie. And it was even better when I got to see one with a fairy tale associated with it. When I am in a depressed state, I am least concerned about whether the story is possible in real world or whether it has even a story at all! All it matters is that I should be feeling better after I am finished up watching it and if it didn't do exactly that, then that was my two hours I wasted which can make me more depressed!!

But it is this one line that caught my attention and inspired me to write this whole thing.
"Fairy tales aren't just about meeting your prince and living happily ever after; it’s about following your dreams and making those dreams come true."

But you know what? Each of our lives is a fairy tale that God has penned beautifully and there is no better way they can happen than what is happening now. Even though this is a thought that occured to me, I am not fully buying it. But I know I should believe in it, because it is the truth. We may have qualities that we don't like and things may not be working just the way we wished, but I want to believe it's all for the best. We are the best of what God wants us to be and we should let ourselves allow to see that fairy tale unfolding before our eyes.

posted on Friday June 16, 2006 - 03:48am (IST)

The Secret That Almost Killed Me

Two and a half years before, I was in a much screwed up state. I had this very dark secret inside me and it became no longer possible to keep it like that. It was slowly eating me. At first I thought this feeling would go away after few days. But no, it continued to live inside me and started eating me faster and faster. And it pained like hell! Day and night I was suffering and it was laughing at my face and enjoying every moment. But I had this very strong and sharp weapon to fight back. I never dared to think of using that. I was scared that it might backfire and I might lose everything I had. It knew that I am in no position to protect myself and continued to inflict pain inside me.

AND then I decided. I had no reason to go through this excruciation for no fault of my own. I made up my mind to use that weapon. Only two outcomes it can bring. One, I can definitely eliminate this pain and I will be freed from this bedlam. Two, it can lead to the destruction of both of us. Either way, I could be removing this thorn from me. So I DID IT!

One afternoon, we were having a free period and so the class was in its usual disorderly manner. I called my friend and we both sat on an empty bench. She had noticed my uneasiness during the past couple of days and was pestering me like anything to spit it out whatever I was having in my mind. I gave her a build up so as to make her know that the issue was not a usual crazy one. When the time finally came to unveil the secret, I lost all my courage to word it out. Hence she had to throw situations at me for which I had to say yes or no. Minutes passed and she was not even getting anywhere near to it. I told her to imagine the most unlikely things that she could associate with me.

So she asked, "You have AIDS."
"No."

"You killed someone."
"No."

"You are gay."
"Yes."

And I finally discovered serenity...

An Encounter With My Romeo

The studies can be quite boring. As usual, I fell asleep during my desperate attempt to feed my brain. Then he came again. But he doesn't have a clear face. Each time he will be having a different one. And each time he will be in a different mood. Sometimes I wonder, are they all different persons. But it would have been so nice if all these guys were just one person. And these dreams have no continuity either. It doesn't start from where it ended last time. It is like each chapter is left off in the middle and then a new chapter is started. Makes me wonder what happened to the previous guy. Why didn't he come this time. Why am I with a new guy now. The experience that I have each time is some what like an enigma. I can't understand its purpose. I can't understand the surroundings. HELL!! I can't even understand the guy also!


This time he was really serious, like he was not having any feelings for me. Then why the hell did he come in my dreams! I was expecting a guy who can shower me with all the love and intimacy. Real life is so void of anything of that sort and this is my only chance to experience them. Then why is he wasting my precious fantasy time.. But something happened and I can't remember what it is, but soon I am having a passionate kiss with him, full of lust and energy and our tongues dancing between our hungry mouths. Ahem... It was a highly erotic sensual kiss. Let's leave it like that..


But as usual, this chapter didn't get to see its end... I was woken up from my sleep.

My mother saw me sleeping and she was shaking me left and right to wake me up.

Well, that's yet another dream.
I am waiting... for another dream, another experience, hopefully the same guy.

posted on Sunday June 4, 2006 - 3:43 pm (IST)

Brokeback Mountain - A Reminiscence

Almost everyone who saw Brokeback Mountain must have left the theatre with a heavy heart thinking how tragic life it had been for Jack and Ennis. Both hoped a day to come when they finally be able to live together, but little did they know that this dream is never going to be fulfilled. In the end, they ended up losing everything...

But this movie is not just dealing with Jack and Ennis alone. It also voices how their affair led to the devastation of two other lifes - Lureen and Almas, their wives. There is one really touching scene where Ennis's wife, Almas learns the truth about Jack and Ennis, and she had to watch helplessly her husband going to the mountains with his "fishing buddy". Her world came crashing down right at that moment. She had to accept the bitter fact that she no longer remained everything for her husband. Same goes for Lureen as well. Although she was not aware of this affair, in the end we are given an impression that she knew what Ennis meant to Jack.

I can't just consider Brokeback Mountain as another fictional story. There are many people in this world suffering the same situation. There are many gays who lead a double life like Jack and Ennis. They are afraid to reveal themselves out of fear - fear of getting eliminated by the society, fearing of hurting their parents, fear of disappointing their loved ones... I am sure there are as many percentage of gays in India as there are in America, UK or in any other part of the world. But no other country experience the height of social bondage as we do. Because of this fear, they don't have the courage to lead a life what their heart actually tells them to do. They need to satisfy their libido but at the same time, they are chained with these social circumstances. The possibility of developing gay relationships are given least preference even if they wish to have one because in the end, they have to get married to a girl whom their parents hunt for them. Thus generates another set of Jacks and Ennises, and Lureens and Almases. This situation goes on...

When are we going to acquire the courage to follow our hearts?

Samurain4u
Image Courtesy: Focus Features and River Road Entertainment.

Related Links:
Brokeback Mountain Soundtrack

The Power Of A Hug

I feel there is nothing in this world that can bring the effect as powerful as that of a hug. The feeling that it brings is unique. One hug can convey messages to many levels that no words can express..

It can say, I care for you. You are special to me. I need you.

A hug can bring solace and can lift ones spirit in disappointments. It can bring comfort. It says, I am here with you. I understand the pain you are going through. I will help you to get over this. I am not going anywhere. I am here, right beside you.

A hug can share joy in happiness. It says, I am proud of you. I am so happy to be with you to share this wonderful moment.

A hug can say I love you. I need you to be close to me forever. I need to feel your presence in every step of my life. I need to feel your warmth in every moment of my life.

A hug can can build new bonds. It can turn foes into friends. It can build unity among people.

A hug can make one feel safe and secure and accepted. It can bring smile to ones face. Wherever you are, whichever language you speak, no matter how old you are, the message conveyed through a hug remains the same. Its a universal symbol.

So have you hugged someone today?

Samurain4u

Love Actually

Waking up early to prepare your boyfriend's favorite breakfast then serving it to him in bed is a wonderful way to say "I love you."

- Michael Breyette

I have fallen in love with two guys. But I was very much sure both the times that it wouldn't work. And I was not at all disappointed when my love was rejected.

The reason?

They were straight. So I knew what their response would be. But I do not consider myself stupid for falling in love with them because I clearly know the reason for my behaviour. They were able to give me emotional satisfaction. For any relationship to grow, this is very important. I have met and socialised with quite a number of gay guys, but never once I have felt emotional attachment to them. Again, I do not find myself weird for this. The reason I felt so close to those two guys is the same as that of girls being able to connect more deeply to gay guys - No sexual tension.

Confused?

Let me explain.. It is nearly impossible for a guy to have only "good" thoughts about a girl. At some point, even if it is for only once, he should have felt something other than that "good" thoughts. But I do agree, this is not intentional. This strain at the emotional level causes that friendship to take some time to grow. While between a girl and a gay guy, there is no question of sexual tension for the guy. Therefore, the guy is able to give her emotional support at the early stage itself, which is what every girl wanting to be in a friendship, is expecting from a guy. And for this reason, the pace of that friendship will be much faster than that of the first one.

The second type of friendship is what I got from those two guys. (And I am not stating myself that I am a girl.. LOL..Sheesh!! Don't derive something like that!!) I saw how beautiful they are from inside. I have often wondered, is it really possible for such people to exist in this world which we consider to be filled with evil. I felt so close to them in a really very short period. The way I see it, they are my angels. I found them in the most unlikely place that anyone would expect to find. That's why I consider them as my gift from The God.

I know it is really stupid to expect the same from a gay guy. Very few will be there to invest so much time for emotional contribution. For me, the idea of living with a man under the same roof is more than enough for me. All I need is frequent hugs and words that make me feel that I am everything for him. I also want to give the same to him. All I seek and want to give is emotional satisfaction. I feel that is love.

Samurain4u

Image Courtesy: The Artwork of Michael Breyette. I STRONGLY recommend this link. He is really an amazing artist. Check out his other works also by clicking here.

Brokeback Mountain Soundtrack

"Tell you what, we coulda had a good life together! Fuckin' real good life! Had us a place of our own. But you didn't want it, Ennis! So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain!"

- Jack Twist to Ennis Del Mar.

I am not a great fan of country songs. (but I do think they fitted perfectly in the movie.. so no grudge against them). So I will talk about the background scores.

1. Opening

3. Brokeback Mountain 1

6. Snow

9. Brokeback Mountain 2

12. Riding Horses

15. Brokeback Mountain 3

17. The Wings

Ofcourse everyone know that they are amazing. They have got a unique feeling, a certain kind of nostalgic emotion to them. They have a major role in the movie, these tracks are the hidden actors. They were able to transport our mind into a different world.. far far away from all this domain of hatred, crime, violence, selfishness, and we are carried to the world where there was only love,.. love between two men which others considered as "forbidden".

These tracks represent the vulnerability of their mind. Though these men seemed to be rough and tough on the outside, inside they too had fears..they too had the sentiment to love and to be loved. But more precisely, I think they sensualize Jack's mind. Each soundtrack starts with a hope, a hope that what ever unpleasant events are happening now, they will be soon forever ceased, and there will be a time full of happiness and joy and love. This hope gets strengthened as the track advances, feeling more positive and confident, at the same time begging for more,.. more hope of wanting to be loved, more hope of wanting these unpalatable situations to be faded as soon as possible, because at the end of all these, there is that ultimate happiness.

Jack was also havin the same emotions. He wanted some how everything to get solved with Ennis. He hoped and dreamt of a day when Ennis would finally defeat all his fears and accept Jack with both arms with out any dubiety. But.. like all the tracks end, his dreams were not fulfilled. Each song ends with a certain guilt in them pleading us to have mercy for giving all those false hopes... that it never wanted to end in that way, reflecting Ennis's thoughts.

Hats Off to Gustavo Santaolalla for churning out such a masterpiece.

Samurain4u
p.s: Did anybody think that I have gone insane? I do.

Image Courtesy: Focus Features and River Road Entertainment.